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gifts Let's buy them gifts? Constitution issue?
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I attended a club meeting as a guest yesterday and enjoyed the meeting. Well run, on time, crisp, polite. (of course, I made some recommendations to the club at the end  They have a nice community and are appreciative of officer work and member contributions. One of their members had purchased a bottle of wine for each outgoing club officer. Yesterday, a member raised a motion to reimburse the cost from club funds and it passed unanimously. I raised my hand and told them I applauded their sentiment. I also told them what they were doing might be in violation of their club constitution. I suggested they check and amend their club constitution if they like I told them I was sorry!  Is such an act in violation of: Article XI Legal Status and Dissolution: Sec. 1. This Club is an unincorporated association formed solely for the purpose of privately educat- ing its individual members. This Club is not legally affiliated with any company, agency, or special interest group from which this Club may draw its individual members. The use of the funds of this Club shall be limited to educational purposes. They may not be used for social or political purposes, or for the benefit of any individual. If so, can clubs modify theirs to allow such gifts? Would that be a good idea? regards, Matthew |
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gifts Let's buy them gifts? Constitution issue?
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meeting. Well run, on time, crisp, polite. (of course, I made some recommendations to the club at the end They have a nice community and are appreciative of officer work and member contributions. One of their members had purchased a bottle of wine for each outgoing club officer. Yesterday, a member raised a motion to reimburse the cost from club funds and it passed unanimously. I raised my hand and told them I applauded their sentiment. I also told them what they were doing might be in violation of their club constitution. I suggested they check and amend their club constitution if they like I told them I was sorry! Is such an act in violation of: Article XI Legal Status and Dissolution: Sec. 1. This Club is an unincorporated association formed solely for the purpose of privately educat- ing its individual members. This Club is not legally affiliated with any company, agency, or special interest group from which this Club may draw its individual members. The use of the funds of this Club shall be limited to educational purposes. They may not be used for social or political purposes, or for the benefit of any individual. If so, can clubs modify theirs to allow such gifts? Would that be a good idea? regards, Matthew
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gifts Let's buy them gifts? Constitution issue?
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I see and understand the rule about using club funds for personal gain, but I also don't fully agree with it. I think the club should be able to determine how to spend the money. The members put the money in, they should have the ability to spend it. Too, I don't see a problem with the gift of alcohol. There didn't seem to be any expectation of consumption on site. If they DID imbibe immediately, there might be an issue, but otherwise it's probably fine. I'm no lawyer, though. Finally, in regard to cost (to me, the least issue): there are plenty of wines that don't cost an arm and a leg. I don't drink wine at all, but have seen bottles in the store, and the majority weren't overly expensive. We have no idea how much the ones purchased were, but if the members decided that they had the money and were willing to spend it, it doesn't matter how much was spent. I can't see how having a pattern should matter, but can see the benefit of having planned it, at least a week or two in advance, to notify the members that a budget item was being voted on at a specific meeting. That goes back to letting the (whole) club decide what to do. Sorry, Mike, we once again seem to be on the opposite sides of an issue. Nothing personal, though! Hope I haven't offended. Abel - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - |
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gifts Let's buy them gifts? Constitution issue?
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I also don't fully agree with it. I think the club should be able to determine how to spend the money. The members put the money in, they should have the ability to spend it. Too, I don't see a problem with the gift of alcohol. There didn't seem to be any expectation of consumption on site. If they DID imbibe immediately, there might be an issue, but otherwise it's probably fine. I'm no lawyer, though. Finally, in regard to cost (to me, the least issue): there are plenty of wines that don't cost an arm and a leg. I don't drink wine at all, but have seen bottles in the store, and the majority weren't overly expensive. We have no idea how much the ones purchased were, but if the members decided that they had the money and were willing to spend it, it doesn't matter how much was spent. I can't see how having a pattern should matter, but can see the benefit of having planned it, at least a week or two in advance, to notify the members that a budget item was being voted on at a specific meeting. That goes back to letting the (whole) club decide what to do. Sorry, Mike, we once again seem to be on the opposite sides of an issue. Nothing personal, though! Hope I haven't offended. Abel
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gifts Let's buy them gifts? Constitution issue?
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The big concern is that as a non-profit organization under U.S. law, there are some very heavy restrictions on how money can be spent, while maintaining that tax-favored status. And even if the club is outside the U.S., it's still subject to U.S. and California law, as a member of Toastmasters International; see the club constitution, article XI, sec. 3. See also: http://www.toastmasters.org/Members/OfficerResources/PoliciesandProce... The use of club funds is limited to the organization’s purpose, which is educational. They may not be used for social or political purposes, or for the benefit of any individual. Some authorized uses are: purchase of educational/administrative materials for club/member use; payment of meeting place rental, if applicable; and refreshments for club meetings (when approved by the club). Some unauthorized uses are: parties and social gatherings; donation of money to causes or individuals; and scholarships or payment of dues for individuals. Abel wrote, On 7/3/2009 6:25 PM: I see and understand the rule about using club funds for personal gain, but I also don't fully agree with it. I think the club should be able to determine how to spend the money. The members put the money in, they should have the ability to spend it. Too, I don't see a problem with the gift of alcohol. There didn't seem to be any expectation of consumption on site. If they DID imbibe immediately, there might be an issue, but otherwise it's probably fine. I'm no lawyer, though. Finally, in regard to cost (to me, the least issue): there are plenty of wines that don't cost an arm and a leg. I don't drink wine at all, but have seen bottles in the store, and the majority weren't overly expensive. We have no idea how much the ones purchased were, but if the members decided that they had the money and were willing to spend it, it doesn't matter how much was spent. I can't see how having a pattern should matter, but can see the benefit of having planned it, at least a week or two in advance, to notify the members that a budget item was being voted on at a specific meeting. That goes back to letting the (whole) club decide what to do. Sorry, Mike, we once again seem to be on the opposite sides of an issue. Nothing personal, though! Hope I haven't offended. Abel
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gifts Let's buy them gifts? Constitution issue?
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Region I host gave his team wine at the end of the proceedings - with Pat, Gary, Mike and Dan Rex all in attendance..... On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Mike Raffety <MikeRaff...@earth_link_.net wrote: No offense at all, I'm glad we can discuss things in a friendly way. The big concern is that as a non-profit organization under U.S. law, there are some very heavy restrictions on how money can be spent, while maintaining that tax-favored status. And even if the club is outside the U.S., it's still subject to U.S. and California law, as a member of Toastmasters International; see the club constitution, article XI, sec. 3. See also: http://www.toastmasters.org/Members/OfficerResources/PoliciesandProce... The use of club funds is limited to the organization’s purpose, whi ch is educational. They may not be used for social or political purposes, or for the benefit of any individual. Some authorized uses are: purchase of educational/administrative materials for club/member use; payment of meeting place rental, if applicable; and refreshments for club meetings (when approved by the club). Some unauthorized uses are: parties and social gatherings; donation of money to causes or individuals; and scholarships or payment of dues for individuals. Abel wrote, On 7/3/2009 6:25 PM: I see and understand the rule about using club funds for personal gain, but I also don't fully agree with it. I think the club should be able to determine how to spend the money. The members put the money in, they should have the ability to spend it. Too, I don't see a problem with the gift of alcohol. There didn't seem to be any expectation of consumption on site. If they DID imbibe immediately, there might be an issue, but otherwise it's probably fine. I'm no lawyer, though. Finally, in regard to cost (to me, the least issue): there are plenty of wines that don't cost an arm and a leg. I don't drink wine at all, but have seen bottles in the store, and the majority weren't overly expensive. We have no idea how much the ones purchased were, but if the members decided that they had the money and were willing to spend it, it doesn't matter how much was spent. I can't see how having a pattern should matter, but can see the benefit of having planned it, at least a week or two in advance, to notify the members that a budget item was being voted on at a specific meeting. That goes back to letting the (whole) club decide what to do. Sorry, Mike, we once again seem to be on the opposite sides of an issue. Nothing personal, though! Hope I haven't offended. Abel
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